tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222318303736141895.post2906903529135231565..comments2023-08-05T05:23:45.628-07:00Comments on Soundings: Liturgical RenewalDale Matsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12975212053636312471noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222318303736141895.post-19592955453207491512009-12-17T16:13:03.721-08:002009-12-17T16:13:03.721-08:00Fr. Carlos,
I know I haven't stopped by in a ...Fr. Carlos,<br /><br />I know I haven't stopped by in a while and therefore just had a chance to read this. I'll probably be sending a link to some Anglican's I know for further, and much better comment.<br /><br />I don't think your point about Elizabethan English is fair. Many quotes out of the original King James still survive today and we, after all, insist that high school students burden themselves with Shakespeare. Holy language should challenge and should have an air of the ancient and if possible the Timeless.<br /><br />We also have to deal with your admission to the beauty of the language. A beauty that causes the language of the original BCP to still be used in modern movies when beauty and awe are called for (in much the same way that they often don't find presbyterian elders to fight vampires; but I digress). Beauty in and of itself is Holy as it originates with God. If what is current is less beautiful we should seriously question its use.<br /><br />This brings us to your interesting use of Tolkien. One of the great feats of Tolkien's work is that he depended on the fine nuances of very old language in order to drive his narrative. For example, the use of only Anglo-Saxon derived words for the Rohan. It is probably one of the few works in existence in which the world was created in order support linguistic morphology.<br /><br />Big "O" Orthodoxy likewise would, I think, question the rapid adoption of more modern language for the sake of modernization itself. One of my frustrations with reciting the Lord's Prayer in the mornings with your fellowship was the loss of the community given by a traditional reading. Changing the language disturbs the ability of the community to internalize the language and that in itself should be approached with caution.<br /><br />As to your questions regarding whether the cause of orthodoxy was really hampered by the 1979 BCP I can't comment fully, having never been an Anglican. However, I have compared the language critically and have been disturbed by the subtle (and sometimes glaring) changes that were made (as a complete aside I've had the chance to slowly work through "Shape of the Liturgy" by Dom Gregory Dix with a very interesting Anglican critique on the older BCP's). You likewise seem to note that these variances exist. If they exist, and if the 1979 BCP is considered a method of teaching the flock, then shouldn't it be removed in favor of the older books at least until your proposed project is completed? After all it shouldn't be treated as a prop.<br /><br />Hopefully I'll be able to round up a few others for some comments. Please take these in the best light, since we know each other at least a little I hope they will be received well. I'll also try to stop by for morning prayer int he future.GK Chestertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412564496846777444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222318303736141895.post-70082028602222133022009-12-06T13:56:02.455-08:002009-12-06T13:56:02.455-08:00I do not believe that the 1979 Prayer Book contrib...I do not believe that the 1979 Prayer Book contributed to the decline of TEC. It was one of the results of the decline into heresy. Once in use, it might have then further aided the decline.<br /><br />I would advocate a return to the sound theology of the 1928 & 1662 BCPs as opposed to returning to their use. I grew up with the 1928 BCP, and while the language is poetic, it is hard to understand. While the 1662 BCP is the prayer book of choice, it is for its theology. It being used as the basis for a prayer book for ACNA churches, so there would be no allegiance to the British Monarchy. Mr. Schwartz need not fear.<br /><br />There is an article on the Prayer Book Society's site (http://pbsusa.org/) about how some African priests are using the 1662 BCP as a means of grounding their flocks in solid orthodox teaching and a bulwark against western heresies.<br /><br />Fr. Carlos is right about getting the language of the liturgy just right. It will take much hard work, but the results will be worth<br />the effort.<br /><br />There is a contemporary language prayer book based on the 1662, 1928 and 1962 BCP editions. It was created for AMIA. More information is at http://www.anglicanmarketplace.com/.<br /><br />For those who would like to use the 1928 BCP, provision could be made for that as well, such as the current Saturday morning service in the chappel. This way no one has to be forced to endure a prayer book not to his liking.David Katzakianhttp://home.comcast.net/~david.katzakian/site/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222318303736141895.post-50863108880134815972009-12-05T11:50:11.002-08:002009-12-05T11:50:11.002-08:00Thanks for reading the article and taking time to ...Thanks for reading the article and taking time to comment, Fred. I am hoping for criticism...it is a work in progress.<br /> While I think your point is pushed a bit, you have actually pointed to that very trend I am concerned about and one of the reasons I wrote the article! I think it would be a shame to force the 1662 PB upon the whole Province (ACNA), let alone the whole Communion. As to the King/Queen of England, I prefer to help "defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic!" I won't be "pledging allegiance to the king/queen of England" any time soon!Holysmokehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06320616715139397752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5222318303736141895.post-5110987016565217142009-12-03T22:57:24.561-08:002009-12-03T22:57:24.561-08:00Kind sir:
You really ought to read your own Jerusa...Kind sir:<br />You really ought to read your own Jerusalem Declaration. Your prayerbook of "choice" is the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. Get ready to pledge your allegiance to the King/queen of England.Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.com